8.99 Off-Topic Chat Page
You can post things here that dont have much to do with a particular chapter, or just communicate with other readers. Please keep the posts clean and somewhat focused on the blog/story and its readers.
You can post things here that dont have much to do with a particular chapter, or just communicate with other readers. Please keep the posts clean and somewhat focused on the blog/story and its readers.
February 21, 2009 at 4:36 am
Hi GK.
I assume you would like to discuss freedom of speech and press? I think it meets Tristan’s request (above) about being relevant to the blog, whilst not having any particular connection to specific chapters.
Was your posting a quiz?
Name one country where freedom of speech really exists.
Answers on a postcard, please, to the ruling body of that country, who will then undertake to put a stop to it.
Over the next couple of days, I’ll put together some of my thoughts about the subject, with specific interest in th UK.
Cheers, Baz.
February 22, 2009 at 8:03 pm
So, you are in the UK, Baz. Been there 7 times. Loved it, though it’s quite expensive. My interests in freedom of press and speech go back to my days as a journalist. But, I am actually more concerned about how free Triston’s bloggers are to express their own appreciation of the topic and personal feelings about things without fear of police intervention. My comments were literary, not saying anything about the underlying feelings of people. A refreshing sense of mutual respect exists here. But what are the limits of propriety in expressing unpopular views on love and children? Has Triston been harassed? Have you or anyone else here?
February 22, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Hallo GK,
Out of nearly 1000 comments and 600 emails concerning the blog, the only harassment i’ve gotten concerned the TGC content…. lawyers and such. The readers of the story don’t comment or mail much (maybe 3% or so do).
I don’t know of any law that says that freedom of thought and speech should be constrained when addressing fiction. I could see anger if the story had no other motive than sexualizing humans, but anyone thats read more then a few chapters should be able to deduce that the story isn’t about that at all. In fact the story isn’t about sex or BL at all, its about people who’s lives colide and how they survive and take in eachother and the world they are faced with.
In the U.S. one can view endless violence, murders/rapes/war on TV, Youtube, movies/video games etc. but sex is something they get all out of sorts about. Is it no wonder that they have the highest murder and incarceration per capita rates of any major country?
As i said, i only hear from about 3% of my readers so i dont know why the other 97% read the story or what they get from it. Another interesting fact is that only 1 in 30 readers continues beyond the first chapter, this tells me that obviously they didnt find in that first chapter what they were looking for (theres no sex in that chapter).
At 10,000 chapter reads a day as it is, would i have 300,000 reads a day with tons of graphic sex in the story? Who cares, thats not what the story is about.
The truth is that if those who comment are a reliable example of the total readership, then they are, as a whole, compassionate, thoughtful humans that find something in the story that resonates with them… for that i am grateful.
Cheers Tristan
February 22, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Hey Gk, I am in the U.S. and have never worried much about posting here….Tristan that was a well put statement. I especially agree with you on paragraph 3. I once was visiting a friend at his home, his wife and two little girls (probably 8-10yo) were inside watching TV. My friend and I were outside. I walked inside for a moment and noticed they were watching some horror movie (I think one of the Freddie-”Nightmare On Elm Street” movies). I was horrified and went out to tell my friend. I said something to the effect that, “Maybe you ought to go in there and take a look at what your kids and wife are watching-it’s definitely something kids shouldn’t watch.” He said he wasn’t worried about anything they watched and besides his wife was there. This appalled me so I said “Well what if it was some sort of movie with sex in it?” He reacted instantly “IS THAT WHAT IT IS? Is that what they’re watching?” And then he started to go inside. I said “No it’s worse it’s a horror movie.” and I told him the name. he immediately relaxed, said that was OK and totally dismissed it. I couldn’t believe it–his attitude was completely insane. His two little girls were watching a horror movie that’s not even fit for adults to watch. What I mean is there is too much insanity that we see in our everyday lives–why deliberately put more insanity in our heads? Especially grotesque violence that exists for it’s own sake and nothing else. If you take all the graphic violence out of a movie or TV show and discover you have nothing left that can hold the story together-guess what? You didn’t have a story in the FIRST place! It wasn’t worth filming. If it still holds together and is worth watching without the ugliness then you have just proven you can tell that story without putting any visual insanity and vile ugliness into peoples minds in the process. Graphic visual violence is ALWAYS superfluous. Back before I was born they could make a movie about a monster–and never even SHOW the monster-and you never even saw blood. Comedians (like Red Skelton) could crack you up without ever using a single bad word. That was art-and they were masters of it! Those old radio serials can still hold me on the edge of my seat and send the chills racing up and down my back just like they did for my grandparents back in the 30’s and 40’s–and that’s AUDIO ONLY folks! They were masters of their trade. I think our violent crime rate is definitely related to our violent so-called entertainments (TV, movies and nowadays video games). If our visual and electronic entertainments were more about love and consensual sexual relationships within the context of love (true love not momentary lust-which is completely unrelated) then I think our crime rate would go down and our society would be happier and more fulfilled. You are helping society in this regard Tristan-keep it up. Till next time, G
February 24, 2009 at 12:31 am
Thanks for taking the time for thoughtful responses, Triston and G. All well said. I can’t help wonder if some of the 97% of people who don’t respond are not looking for sex, but are aware that even discussions of underage love is taboo. We would agree that child pornography (if it really exists) is objectionable. But love between two people outside legal categories is equally condemned. Legal definitions are often so all-encompassing as to encumber plain sense definitions with opposite meanings (e.g consent = rape). It is not reasonable, but that’s how American society has become in this era of hysterical intolerance. Adult pornography, which many of us find loathesome, is better tolerated than love of a child by a nonrelative. Go figure.
In America, district attorneys don’t care about reason and sense. Guilt or innocence is not their concern. They are paid to prosecute cases successfully and will use any means to do so. The lives of many good people have been destroyed because of them. American jurists, district attorneys, and law enforcement cannot be trusted to do the right thing. I believe that is why many people shy away from commentary on these blogs. Can we blame them? At least, there are the three percent.
February 24, 2009 at 10:52 am
Hello GK, Tristan, G.
The UK has much the same views as the US. We too have endless violence etc., which children freely watch, but at the first sign of sex on TV we become hysterical, and pack the kids off to their bedroom to play some morbidly brutal game on their Xbox.
I do wonder, though, how much further up the ratings for murder we would move, if we had the easy access to firearms that the US has.
Like G., though, I have no concerns over posting my views here – I’m not expecting a knock at the door as I write this. If I were advocating paedophilia, it would be a close call as to whether the police or a vigilante group got to my door first.
The UK does have a law relating to the written word, including fiction. The Obscene Publications Act (OPA) of 1857, 1959, and 1964.
Originally passed in 1857, the definition of obscenity was clarified in 1868 as “…..material which tends to deprave and corrupt those liable to succumb to such immoral influences”. Curiously, the original act was used to prevent the distribution of information about contraception and physiology to the working classes on the late 1800’s.
Only the 1959 and 1964 versions, with subsequent amendments remain on the statute book. The acts are aimed at the written word, and have been extended to include erotic films (1977), and under the 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act, further extended to cover computer images.
Following a series of spectacularly unsuccessful prosecutions between 1960 (Penguin Books’ publication of D H Lawrence’s “Lady Chatterley’s Lover”) and 1991 (“Lord Horror” by David britton) the act has not been used against any written literature since 1991. It has been used, successfully, to prosecute publication of graphic, explicit images – BUT don’t hold your breath, things could change over here.
A trial date has been set for March 19, 2009, for the prosecution (under the OPA) of a civil servant who allegedly posted on the internet a fictional piece of writing which fantasises about the torture, rape, murder, and subsequent sale of body parts on e-bay of the pop band Girls Aloud.
If the prosecution is successful, this could have serious consequences, not just for literature, but also for internet access in the UK.
Luv to all, Baz
P.S.
How’s that for a word count, G? If I put my mind to it, I can top yours any day!
February 24, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Thank you, Baz, for an interesting and informative summary of UK law. Sounds like you might be better off than we are in America.
February 24, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Hi GK.
Just read your last post, and couldn’t agree more. Adult pornography is better tolerated than love for a child by a non relative.
In the UK, if you showed any sort of affection / love for an unrelated child, you would be viewed with suspicion – “Is he a paedophile, looking to abuse that child”.
In that sense, I’ve been fortunate, having worked “professionally” with kids, and with an ID badge with photo, name, organisation clearly displayed. This does provide a measure of “acceptance” – but I’ve been in situations where I have felt it appropriate to cuddle or hug a child, received questioning looks – but a wave of the ID seems to evoke the response “it must be OK then”. Really strange – why is it not acceptable for any loving person to do that? why is it acceptable for a “professional” to do it? How, even, do people know the ID is valid?
Baz.
February 25, 2009 at 11:18 am
Hi GK.
I’m not sure we’re better off at all. The Act still remains in force – it fell into disrepute because of the failed prosecutions in that 31 year period. As far as I am aware, there were only 2 successes, and both were overturned on appeal.
The problem I see with the pending case is simply that there is no publisher involved, with the financial resources to mount an appeal if the charge is upheld.
A successful prosecution might give sufficient confidence to those who do wish to curtail freedom of speech, to mount more prosecutions.
I wrote only about the OPA because it is specific to literature. We have a whole range of other legislation which can be used to suppress freedom of speech.
This week, our Home Secretary issued a “gagging” order to prevent publication of Cabinet discussions about the invasion of Iraq. This despite the fact that the information should be freely available, under the provisions of our Freedom of Information Act – and which Government passed this Act? – the very one now seeking to withold that information!
Baz.
February 25, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Hello, Baz,
I read of a case in England where a lost boy was not helped by anyone because people were afraid to involve themselves with a child.
So, we both have ID badges, Baz. And both hug children when they need hugs. Both professionals. Both displeased with societies that are so screwed up.
Thanks for your input and for sharing you concerns.
GK
February 26, 2009 at 2:14 am
Hey GK and Baz.
GK I totally agree with every point you made in your 1st post on the 24th. Based on the current and hopefully temporary intrusion by govt into basic human rights in the UK (as pointed out by Baz) I would have to disagree with your 2nd post regarding which country respects certain human rights more tho. But it’s probably close. This Hysteria Era we live in had it’s start here in the U.S. then it spread everywhere. It was mostly (and for the most part still remains) well intentioned in theory–i.e. the protection of UNCONSENTING minors from certain adults to whom consent didn’t matter. Unfortunately we forgot to provide any provision for consent by reasonably intelligent and informed CONSENTING minors-even if they have their own parents consent. Instead we have always set a thoroughly arbitrary age for the right of consent in every country on earth-a “set” age that betrays it’s arbitrariness by the fact that it has varied throughout history and continues to vary by nation and even by state in the U.S. Usually these days it is deemed to be 18. Unfortunately natural human biological drives and imperatives take absolutely no note of law-or perhaps I SHOULD say that human law takes absolutely no note of natural human biological drives and imperatives. Both statements are true since they mutually pay no attention to each other. Sexuality is the only instinctive biological domain that we have ceded control of to our governments. When did we do this?? When did we give THEM that right? Even if a majority of the population is in favor of controlling by legal fiat our sexual and romantic personal prerogatives why should that impulse have any legitimacy? Tyranny by the majority is not a right a majority of voters EVER has! Letting our governments control truly consensual relationships based on an arbitrary and artificial age of consent is no different than letting them control what we eat or when, when we sleep, whether we breathe thru our noses or our mouths or whether we choose to pee standing up. These are INDIVIDUAL rights that no majority and, therefor, no government can legitimately usurp. These rights will be taken back some day when the lives of enough minors have been destroyed by the State that it begins to shock the national and international conscience. The lives of the adults who loved them do not matter since they are automatically dumped in the same category as the molesters we all detest. It will have to be the children who stand up and protest. Perhaps a modern day Childrens (and teens) Crusade to take back the right of romantic association that they, with parental oversight and assent, have ALWAYS enjoyed until recent centuries. Perhaps they could be inspired and led by former child victims of the State-people whose very lives were raped by force thru the violent enforcement of arbitrary Age Statutes (the States OWN version of “Statutory Rape”). Perhaps someday these people, as adults, will speak out, in both spoken and written word, about the horrors visited on them and their adult lovers by an unfeeling State. I think every once and awhile about Mary K. Letourneau who went to prison for 7 years for having a long term consenting relationship with her 12yo student Villi Fualaau. As soon as she got out of prison, he (at age 21) went to court and won permission to associate with her freely again. In time they got married and still are-and presumably are very happy together. What was the point of sending her to jail? What was accomplished? Did either one come to believe they were wrong? Were their lives improved? Was Villi “saved” from anything? Villi still had sex-only with multiple teenage partners-none of whom measured up to Mary by his own admission. The girls clamored after him during his youth because they figured if he was good enough for a grown woman then he must be super good! What a life!! But in the end he went back to Mary the moment he was allowed. Their lives were ruined by the State (deliberately). The fact that they put their lives back together does not exonerate the State in the least. We the people are supposed to control the State not the other way around. And tyranny by the majority is inherently illegitimate. BTW Neither Mary nor Villi are pedophiles-they are both heterosexuals. But something clicked between them-something which the State had no right whatsoever to stomp on-and ultimately failed to stamp out. Also BTW, in case anyone was wondering Villi was the aggressor–he was the one who started the whole thing and kept it going till she fell for him–according to both of them.
And you’re right GK, government prosecutors have no interest in reason, sense, guilt, innocence, or right or wrong–or basic human rights (at least not the ones that aren’t protected by mans law yet). When it comes to their job they are no more a reasoning, thinking being than a Doberman Pinscher is. They are not paid to think they are paid to attack. Like they freely admit “anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law”. This is amorality writ large–and we the people allow it. Try using that sort of amoral, one-sided, hateful, blinkered approach with your friends, family and neighbors and see how many of them you have left on your side at the end of the month. It’s fine for crimes where there is a “self-acknowledged” victim. But it emphatically does not work where there is no person who believes themselves to be a victim. The only thing you create is an “actual victim” (of the State itself). And you create an embittered enemy. They will organize politically in time-you mark my words! It only takes a few to change the public mood. Particularly so with a subject like sex which holds peoples attention inherently . There will be books-there will be movies. Then there will be organized movements. I’m so looking forward to it.
Hello Baz. I agree with your points about TV’s and Xboxes. And am grateful for your info on the legal insanity going on in the UK. But I respectfully disagree with your point at the end of the first paragraph seemingly connecting private gun ownership by law abiding citizens with the actions of violent criminals. I hope that I do not offend you by presenting a two part counterpoint to this common misconception.
The first part concerns violent crime. The second part will will address the reason for the Second Amendment guaranteeing an individual right to keep and bear arms. For starters the last thing I heard (this could be out of date now-but I don’t think so) the per capita murder rate as well as most other violent crime rates (per capita) in the UK were higher than in the US and rising in recent years as the gun laws were more stringently enforced on innocent citizens. However our population is, per capita, several times more armed than yours. If guns cause violent crime (instead of violent criminals causing violent crime as we believe is the case) you would think our crime rate would be several times higher than it is. We do have after all, no doubt, several times the number of privately owned (and privately possessed) firearms per capita. The fact is the more armed we are the lower our crime rate goes.
A few years ago Morton Grove, Il (a very liberal Chicago suburb) enacted a firearm prohibition. The violent crime rate IMMEDIATELY shot up. nothing else changed to account for that-and the larger Chicago area did not share in that huge rise-just Morton Grove as I understand it. This blatantly unconstitutional law so enraged the nation that one town, Kennesaw, Ga, (just north of the violent city of Atlanta) enacted the exact opposite legislation as a protest. This legislation required every homeowner to purchase a firearm if they didn’t already have one. Exceptions were made for “conscientious or religious objectors.” Guess what happened to their violent crime rate? You’re right it plummeted! Word gets around and criminals (the vast majority of them) don’t like to die any more than you or I. Morton Grove disarmed the citizenry and the criminals took advantage of it. In reality probably very few guns were turned in-but the difference was psychological. The criminals BELIEVED there were few if any guns and so felt safer attacking and pillaging the citizenry, both on the street and in their homes. In Kennesaw the opposite happened. The point was driven home to the crooks that every house would have an armed homeowner inside who inherently knew the layout of the house and therefor literally had the “homefield advantage”. We have a saying “When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.” It’s literally true. Furthermore EVERY outlaw who wants a gun will ALWAYS have a gun. The only thing that gunbanning accomplishes is the disarmament of the very people who SHOULD have guns. It’s a completely unilateral disarmament I can assure you. The crooks DO NOT care about the punishment-that’s why they’re called crooks! The law-abiding citizen DOES care and is put at a tactical and psychological disadvantage. What about reliance on the police you may ask? We have another saying “When seconds count the police are only minutes away.” Not a day goes by in the US without multiple people saving their own lives, the lives of loved ones, or bystanders or someones property using a personal firearm to immediately head off the situation. They rarely have to kill or even shoot-just hold it on the perpetrator and make it clear that they WILL use it if necessary. Furthermore we have done studies that prove unequivocally that the majority of large scale shootouts and such occur in official “gun-free zones” such as schools, colleges (think Virginia Tech), restaurants, stores, government facilities and the like. Two types of govt facilities are free of shootouts oddly enough–military installations and police stations. Want to take a guess why? It’s not “non-violence counseling” for the employees I can promise you that–quite the exact opposite in fact. Criminals define “strength” their own way (not the way liberals tell them to) and they ONLY respect THAT definition of strength-and no other!! That is baseline reality.
We have a Bill Of Rights that recognizes our basic human right to be armed with any arm in any place at any time. We have an “(uninfringeable) right to keep and bear arms”. This is an ancient right that goes all the way back tens of thousands of years to rocks and clubs and we will not give it up under ANY circumstances. It is, in fact, the guarantee of last resort of ALL of our other rights. Including, especially, the right of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press which are not reserved BY the people and FOR the people of the UK (YET!)–let alone in unabridgeable form. Baz this is the crux of your logical nightmare fears of police knocking down your doors over something you may want to WRITE or SAY. With regard to the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution, without the recognition of our INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms we would have NO weaponry we could carry on our person in order to band together with other citizens in order to violently reinstitute our OTHER rights in the face of tyranny. If we have no weapons and our own government is corrupted to such a degree that the courts can’t OR WON’T defend our other rights then we have no way to overthrow the government and institute a new one. The Founding Fathers wanted that very thing (bloody revolution) to ALWAYS be an option. They wanted the government they were instituting to ALWAYS be in fear of the people-not the other way round. The Constitution of The United States was based on The Declaration of Independence, a wise document that, owing to it’s eloquence and timeless wisdom I find almost impossible to single out excerpts from. This is owing to the fact that no matter how large the excerpt I choose I always find myself wanting to include the lines before and after it as well. Nonetheless the core part I am referring to states unequivocally the following. (Most capitalization’s are mine for emphasis of the point) “We hold these truths to be SELF EVIDENT: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that AMONG these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED; that whenever ANY form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to ALTER or to ABOLISH IT (!!!), and to institute new government…” There it is, written by the very men who formed our government in the first place. They wanted us to ALWAYS be able to take it down by force if it usurped our authority. They said firstly that we were to try to “alter it” and if that didn’t work we were to “abolish it”. And for that you need guns-and lots of them. Several in every house at least. And you need to know how to use them. Nothing frightens tyrants (including bureaucratic and judicial tyrants) more than an armed citizenry. And anyone or group of someones who fears an armed citizenry, is, or has the philosophical motivations of, a tyrant. I don’t agree with every single American on everything (the proof is my party lost big time in the last election) BUT I do prefer them ALL to be armed. I trust Americans as a whole–more so than I trust our government as a whole-which is, itself, armed. We are, or were intended by our Founding Fathers, to be the counterweight of last resort to that armed government. Just as a “church” consists of the PARISHIONERS–not the building they worship in or the land it is located on, even so is America. “America” is the PEOPLE–not the US government and NOT the land. We the PEOPLE would be America if we lived in 5 states or 500. It’s a belief system-not a border. America is a “Great Experiment” in INDIVIDUAL freedom (that is collectively defended by we the people)–it is NOT a government. The case for the Experiment is made in the Declaration of Independence and the principles for it are laid out in the Constitution.
In conclusion Baz, what you need to defend your rights as Humans and as British “free citizens” is a Bill of Rights of your own. Or at least, so is my belief. A short list of rights and principles that you will brook no governmental interference with. You need to guarantee yourselves the firearms to back it up. For if those newly claimed rights are not guaranteed by the blood and righteous wrath of British citizens they are not guaranteed by anything tyrants respect. The Magna Charta, one of the precedents for our Declaration of Independence, was achieved, in part, thru force of arms-not a “multi-lateral peace conference” or any such nonsense. You are BRITS, you, led by “The Bulldog” Winston Churchill, totally defied and defeated the Nazi war machine a few years back. You have it in you, certainly you can defy and defeat the Nazi’s in your own government. There is nothing they would fear more than you getting your OWN British Bill of Rights. I have read whispers of some talk of getting this done. I hope it’s more than rumours. I wish you and all my British cousins well. Till next time, G
February 26, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Hi G.
Wow! – a thought provoking response. But before I address the issues of firearms, let’s deal with your first point. The welfare of children. The “Hysteria Era” most certainly is based on a well intentioned theory, that sadly, has got out of control – I believe, in the UK at least, due to sensationalist reporting by elements of our press, coupled with a move towards a culture of blame. We always seek a victim. People are human, and mistakes will be made – I’m sure that I’ve made errors of judgement in my work with children. Fortunately, to the best of my knowledge, none of these have resulted in tragic endings. There is though, a growing body of opinion amongst those who work with children, that that we have moved into the area of over-protection. One consequence of over protection is that children no longer play with each other on the streets (for their parents fear of abuse), and are consigned to their rooms with TV, Games, etc. They become insular, and do not develop social skills. Is it any wonder that when their parents consider them old enough to go out, they have no concept of how to deal with people? Should we really be surprised that they appear aggressive, and bond into groups, sometimes behaving like a pack of wolves? This is a totally new experience for them – they are finding their feet, out in a world that they do not know, a world they have not yet experienced.
I came across this letter to a UK newspaper (Guardian, 18/11/08), which I feel says a lot. I don’t know whether the case of Baby P was reported world wide.
“I am not sure whether it is hypocrisy, ignorance or indifference that allows a large proportion of the British public to scream indignation at the death of Baby P on the one hand, while at the same time victimising the next generation (Britain in danger of demonising its children, claims Barnardo’s, November 17). Working for 40 years in special education, children’s homes and secure units, I saw many children who, unlike Baby P, survived a brutal upbringing. The scars of this early childhood would frequently leave them unable to trust adults and feel at war with society at large – effects reflected in their behaviour. It seems children have to die or receive serious physical injury to gain public sympathy – the manifestations of emotional and mental scars are dismissed as “animal behaviour”.
The blame for this public antagonism towards children must be shared by the actions of the media and successive governments. These include inadequate mental health services for children and adolescents; the lack of funding for public sector youth clubs because tax cuts are more important; voluntary youth work diminished through fears of overzealous reactions to false child protection accusations; reporting that seeks out the sensational; introduction of the asbo (Anti Social Behaviour Order), age-discriminatory curfews and Mosquito devices. This amounts to the bullying of children and young people collectively by adult society; becoming increasingly oppressive will inevitably make the situation worse.
The blame culture that seeks out scapegoats from those who make an effort is no solution; we are all to blame.”
I’ve quoted the letter in full because it fully embraces my feelings, and I couldn’t express it any better.
There’s a reference to “false child protection accusations”. In the UK, we have what is known as List99. This is a register of people considered unsuitable to work with children in schools. It is possible to be on this list without ever committing an offence, and without knowing you are on it, simply because a school terminates your employment because they may have concerns about your suitability. I quote from the legislation “Schools that dismiss employees because they consider them unsuitable to work with children are obliged to report the case to the DfES (Department for Education and Schools), which may bar them from working in a school again.”
Full definitions in brackets are mine, purely to define the acronyms which may not be obvious to US readers.
Now G. – firearms. The only offence I take is a very slight one, that you should even consider that I would be offended by your comments. If we can’t freely express our views, with a respect for other peoples views, on a site like this, then where can we? If we don’t express those views, how do we expect to bring about change? Of course we will encounter bigots, so set in their ways that no amount of reasoned argument will change them, but that’s their problem.
You present a very well reasoned argument. I believe I’m open minded – I wasn’t actually trying to make a connection between murder rates and availability of guns – simply asking a question. The truth is I don’t know whether that connection exists or not. The prohibition of guns for personal use took full effect in the UK in 1953 – I was 4 at the time, so I’ve been brought up in a culture of a “gun free society”.
Your very positive assertion about guns in the US had me on the Web for hours, trying to find some hard data. There isn’t that much published on a global basis, and to try an interpret individual country stats would take time that I don’t have. Either way, it doesn’t matter to me whether I could verify or contradict your statements.
The best I could find was an article in our press, albeit written by an American. I’m posting the full article, because I can’t see a way of condensing it without losing significant content.
““If guns are outlawed,” an American bumper sticker warns, “only outlaws will have guns.” With gun crime in Britain soaring in the face of the strictest gun control laws of any democracy, the UK seems about to prove that warning prophetic.
For 80 years the safety of the British people has been staked on the premise that fewer private guns means less crime, indeed that any weapons in the hands of men and women, however law-abiding, pose a danger.
Government assured Britons they needed no weapons, society would protect them. If that were so in 1920 when the first firearms restrictions were passed, or in 1953 when Britons were forbidden to carry any article for their protection, it no longer is.
The failure of this general disarmament to stem, or even slow, armed and violent crime could not be more blatant. According to a recent UN study, England and Wales have the highest crime rate and worst record for “very serious” offences of the 18 industrial countries surveyed.
But would allowing law-abiding people to “have arms for their defence”, as the 1689 English Bill of Rights promised, increase violence? Would Britain be following America’s bad example?
Old stereotypes die hard and the vision of Britain as a peaceable kingdom, America as “the wild west culture on the other side of the Atlantic” is out of date. It is true that in contrast to Britain’s tight gun restrictions, half of American households have firearms, and 33 states now permit law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons.
But despite, or because, of this, violent crime in America has been plummeting for 10 consecutive years, even as British violence has been rising. By 1995 English rates of violent crime were already far higher than America’s for every major violent crime except murder and rape.
You are now six times more likely to be mugged in London than New York. Why? Because as common law appreciated, not only does an armed individual have the ability to protect himself or herself but criminals are less likely to attack them. They help keep the peace. A study found American burglars fear armed home-owners more than the police. As a result burglaries are much rarer and only 13% occur when people are at home, in contrast to 53% in England.
Much is made of the higher American rate for murder. That is true and has been for some time. But as the Office of Health Economics in London found, not weapons availability, but “particular cultural factors” are to blame.
A study comparing New York and London over 200 years found the New York homicide rate consistently five times the London rate, although for most of that period residents of both cities had unrestricted access to firearms.
When guns were available in England they were seldom used in crime. A government study for 1890-1892 found an average of one handgun homicide a year in a population of 30 million. But murder rates for both countries are now changing. In 1981 the American rate was 8.7 times the English rate, in 1995 it was 5.7 times the English rate, and by last year it was 3.5 times. With American rates described as “in startling free-fall” and British rates as of October 2002 the highest for 100 years the two are on a path to converge.
The price of British government insistence upon a monopoly of force comes at a high social cost.
First, it is unrealistic. No police force, however large, can protect everyone. Further, hundreds of thousands of police hours are spent monitoring firearms restrictions, rather than patrolling the streets. And changes in the law of self-defence have left ordinary people at the mercy of thugs.
According to Glanville Williams in his Textbook of Criminal Law, self-defence is “now stated in such mitigated terms as to cast doubt on whether it still forms part of the law”.
Nearly a century before that American bumper sticker was slapped on the first bumper, the great English jurist, AV Dicey cautioned: “Discourage self-help, and loyal subjects become the slaves of ruffians.” He knew public safety is not enhanced by depriving people of their right to personal safety.”
Joyce Lee Malcolm, professor of history, is author of Guns and Violence: The English Experience, published in June 2002.
So, G.
Some very serious issues raised. I’m not anti gun, but brought up in a society where personal guns have been prohibited. Yes, the UK is experiencing an increase in violent crime, which government seems powerless to address. I didn’t realise that we actually had a Bill of Rights, and yes, I’ve looked it up, we did have a right to arm ourselves (OK there were religious differences then, only protestants had the right to be armed – but that covers me anyway!) until government intervened. Yes, I totally agree with your views, it is US the people of a nation who should decide how our country is run.
As with your post, this has been a lot longer than I intended. I hope it’s not using up too much space on Tristan’s blog.
Just as an aside, my Dad served in WW2, in the SAS, and brought home a few souvenirs from his experience. I was about 11/12 when he caught me in the garage brandishing a Luger, he was not impressed and even less so when he spotted a dagger that I’d stuck in the wooden frame of the garage. Needless to say. I never found them again!
Luv, baz
February 27, 2009 at 12:17 am
Hey Baz I didn’t know the UK already had a British Bill of Rights. In school I remember we covered the Magna Charta several times (from a child or teens perspective). But I don’t remember your Bill of Rights which was FAR more relevant to the ordinary person as near as I can tell. Maybe they did cover it and I just don’t remember. Anyway I looked it up on the web (or rather a synopsis) and was impressed. Maybe with a bit of effort it can be updated with more ironclad rights for individuals so that no one could later “redefine it away by degrees”. I don’t know if there is a mechanism The People can use to change it or not (such as a direct referendum)-or if that is reserved only for your elected officials. The fact it already exists AND has been altered already in the past is more than half the battle. That sets a precedent I should think. BTW a point I had intended to make in my 1st post is that most of our Bill of Rights exists specifically to prevent “tyranny by the majority”. Certain prerogatives are, by nature and good sense, reserved to the individual regardless of local, national or current majority opinion. These rights are not subject to a vote and cannot be taken away or given away–they can only be suppressed or abrogated. Among these rights (but not limited to them) are the right to life, the right to liberty and the right to pursue happiness. Some of the specifics involved in fleshing out these rights include the right to keep and bear arms, and the rights of freedom of speech and of the press. But again the list is not limited to these or the others in our respective Bills of Rights. There are other basic natural rights baked into our collective Human DNA just waiting to be singled out, taken out of the hands of government and reserved unto the people. G
February 28, 2009 at 4:52 am
Hi G.
We have much the same situation over here – many dual-income families, who are seldom around for their children. I agree that the core problem is one of lack of proper parenting. I have long held the belief that there is no such thing as a “bad child”, only “bad” parents. I use the term “bad” broadly to cover any form of inappropriate parenting, from abuse to neglect (whether wilful or not).
Our Government is actively encouraging single mothers to return to work, leaving their children in the hands of child-minders. Whatever happened to the concept of family values? I was brought up in a “traditional” family, where Mum was at home all the time.
I wasn’t advocating social spending as an alternative to proper family relationships, and I don’t think the writer of the letter was. It is a useful complement though, allowing children to extend their social network, beyond immediate neighbours and school friends. When I was in my teens, nearly every Church had a Youth Club, and you didn’t have to be a member of that Church to go along. I made many new friends at these clubs.
True comparisons of crime rates are very difficult due to differences in recording criteria. What is important are the trends. Murder rates are falling in the US, and rising in the UK, and by most other reports our level of serious / violent crime already exceeds that of the US.
At the end of your last post, you refer to “…collective Human DNA..”. The DNA caught my eye. Did you know the UK has the largest (proportionally) DNA database in the world?
It has some 5 million entries, about 7% of the UK population. About 857,000 entries are of people not prosecuted, or acquitted.
1.09 million entries of minors (<18), of which 337,000 relate to under 16s.
These are our own Government figures, and in 2006 Tony Blair was actively proposing the extension of the database to include all UK citizens. Add this to a proposal for a national ID card database storing biometric information on everyone resident in the UK and an eBorders database including biometric and DNA details for everyone entering and leaving the UK, and we really do seem to be moving a “Big Brother” state. Maybe George Orwell was right – what next, a little chip in the brain?
Cheers, Baz
Did spot the duplication, fingers too nimble I guess – and posted an apology right away. By the time I saw the moderated version, Tristan had removed the duplication.
February 28, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Hi G.
If it’s any consolation, the fact you don’t recollect being taught about our Bill of Rights, is simply that you probably weren’t!
I remember being taught about Magna Carta, and our civil War – both fundamental to our “democracy” – but I too have no recollection of being taught about the Bill of Rights. Why? – Possibly because of religious differences contained in it, it was considered “politically incorrect” by the time I was at school.
Baz.
February 28, 2009 at 3:05 pm
My DNA is in the US government database because I was a US troop. All of our US troops have their DNA in a database now…interesting huh?
February 28, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Hey Baz,
Yes, you are right about Youth Groups and Clubs and such being important for young people. I guess I probably didn’t explain my view on that well (or at all). I’m all in favor of such things-and even in favor of some limited matching national funding and some minimal common sense national standards setting. It’s just that so much of the time such initiatives are used by “big government” advocates as a way of promoting their political agenda. Also as a way of minimizing the importance of families, in particular discipline and the teaching of respect for other people, things, patriotic beliefs etc. I don’t have a problem with differences in people or beliefs-I have many non-traditional beliefs myself. I just don’t like tax money being used to “fix what ain’t broken–YET”.
Till next time, G
March 2, 2009 at 12:50 am
Hi G,
I take your point on DNA – that’s me going off at a tangent. What I missed out is that our database was created to aid criminal detection. Why does it contain so many records of the innocent? and why so many minors? Does it actually aid dection? In the last five years the number of entries has doubled, yet the percentage of recorded crimes that involved DNA detection remained constant at about 0.36%.
Baz
March 2, 2009 at 11:45 am
Hi G.
I don’t agree with national spending on issues that don’t need to be fixed. In the UK most youth work is funded by local authorites – I don’t what your US equivalent is. At least there is some local control, nationally people seem to vote on party lines – locally they seem to pay more attention to specific issues. My own local authority has changed hands (in terms of political party control) every five years for the last 20 or so years.
When I went to youth clubs, they were all voluntary, not state, run. But there is still a long term issue – if parents won’t accept responsibility, who makes those provisions for the children. It’s got to be a long term programme – education of parents, and providing facilicities for children, until parents do fully accept their responsibilities.
I’m sorry to labour the point, but I’ve spent years at the “front line” trying to address these issues with kids, and their parents, who at best just aren’t interested, and who at worst are deliberately obstructive.
Baz
March 30, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Thank you Tristan for this truly wonderful story you have written. I am simply amazed at how well you describe the many scenes and characters of the story that allows me to imagine the scenes as I read them. I was hooked from chapter one, I couldn’t wait to read the next chapter and spent the last 4 nights reading and imagining the scenes in my head. You are truly a gifted writer and I am a huge fan of your work of art. I anxiously await the next chapter and will check back daily for my next fix.
I was happy to see I had no problem reading your alphabet soup post, truly amazing the mind is in deed
) I will make a donation to your cause and I thank the anonymous donor that is helping you with a new computer. If you are ever able to get this story published I will buy it as soon as it is available. Thank you again Tristan for giving me hope in the human spirit. In a world of dark and doubt, there is a light that is true love that some find a way to share with one another. That is what we all want, to be loved and excepted for who we are, not for what others think we should be.
TJD
May 17, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Okay found it but i can not go back a couple of months. This Blog has not been used for awhile. I would if I could be a couple months younger.
May 28, 2009 at 9:39 am
To all,
I will be spending a few hours here. There is an amazing amount of information here.
sunny
June 12, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Wow! Baz, G, GK, regarding your beginning posts. You all hit the nail squarely on the head! Today’s society doesn’t seem to know left from right when it comes to issues of morality and media.
One thing that I have thought about a long time, and especially after reading Dr. Pollack’s book “Real Boys,” (which incidently is what pushed me to want to pursue a career in Child Psych) is that of the Boy Code, the expectations of feigned bravado and toughness that society seems to place on boys that ultimately ends up cutting off thier natural desire for affection and intimate friendship with other boys and girls. Instead, many of them may have to hide behind a mask, not being able to express their true feelings to parents or peers due to the fear of being thought of as ‘girly’, ’sissy’, etc. It seems like a terrible cycle, but it is one that can be broken. That, and other topics such as homosexuality and what schools can do for boys, are discussed in this book. I recommend it to anyone who would further study that particular field.
Not sure exactly how it relates to what you were discussing, but feel it is a pertinent subject nonetheless when talking about how we can help youth in tough situations, such as finding an alternative to having to sell oneself to survive. It is a tough world out there, one that I don’t know much about but hopefully have seen a glimpse of after reading Tristan’s wonderful story, and I hope that we can get this out there and help those that stand in need of it.
God Bless,
T
June 15, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Lauklin, G, and anyone else…
we had built trails through the woods. that woods was like 3 miles long and maybe 1 mile wide. There were some huge trees in there too. along with the pond, [ that we called the swamp ] from where we entered the woods, at the end of that short dirt road, to the right maybe 3/4 of a mile, to the left was the rest of it and ending at the soybean field and pasture, or field and the creek where we went swimming.
I mentioned that Tim had a mom and dad. And that I had a mother and father.
Tim also had a grandfather that lived right next door to him, or his family.
I did not have a grandfather. I had cousins that were like 30 years old.
And the only reason they came around was to see just how Bad we were doing.
Oh there was an Uncle and an Aunt that had kids that I remember and there was a time [ when I was little ] that we lived with them, but even then, the boy cousin was a teenager, but the 2 girls were younger.
This was in the city. my mother told me this part many years later. we would be put out on the front porch and Blacky the dog would lay at the top of the steps, he was our bodyguard… nobody came up on that porch, not even my Uncle Roy when he came home from work, or the Bar.
I was just a little kid, I do not remember that… But I do remember learning how to roller-skate holding onto Car door handles.
Back to Tim and Me… I think you missed the part where we walked to school together… I would see him coming through the field from his house… we did not know each other… he had to walk past my house, he always walked on the same side of the street, I would walk on the other side of the street and behind him… in my young mind I pretended I was walking to school with him.
To me he was a really neat kid, he had friends… I did not… his dad was a real Dad, his mom was a real Mom… Tim did not live in fear of going home at the end of the day, I did, we all did, I found that out as I got older from my brothers and sisters.
Tim’s Dad was in, or did something in Radio and when Television came along Tim’s Dad got into that… in 1948 Tim’s Dad built them a Color Television with a Newspaper size screen… when the only thing on the market was a 10 inch round Television.
But to go back to walking to school… there was a time when we did walk to school together and that must have come about after I had walked up that path to his backyard that day.
Sorry, but I’ll need to come back to this later…sunny
June 16, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Hello Sunny
I really hope your well my friend.
I left a message here befor but it wouldn\’t upload.
I will keep this short just in case it won\’t upload either.
I\’m reading your story with great interest. I really like old black and white fotos of stuff that boys did in the early days. I also like old fotos of cars, motor bikes and trucks and busses. I\’m weird like that.
I believe your story has the potential to become an illistrated blogg. I\’ll talk further on that later.
When I get the courage I\’ll tell you about David, but first I\’ll tell you about my best friend Steven. He was the first boy I ever had an intermit encounter with. We were 10.
Stay well Sunny
Lauklin
June 17, 2009 at 6:56 am
Lauklin,
I left something on the other RB page, but than I came over here to this page.
intimate encounter… yeah well, but we were just two dumb kids. you know what I mean?
Another house, another move, lost contact with him, but never forgot him.
To this very minute I remember his words to that friend. [ he can stay ]
Where ever he was, i was, where ever i was he was.
be great if we could just sit down at a table with a cup of coffee and just talk for a while… sunny
June 17, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Lauklin,
Wouldn’t that be great?
love old cars, back when the had fenders and bumpers and headlights and running boards… my father had a 1936 Buick road master Limousine.
it was like 20 feet long, bumper to bumper, 2 spare tires in the front fenders, the hood must have been like 7 feet long, over a straight 8 cast iron engine.
it had the divider window that came up out of the back of the front seat and 2 jump seats that folded out of the back of the front seat.
I always wanted to have one of them, but never got around to buying one.
Ha, Ha, No way, he got that car from a man he did some carpenter work for.
the man didn’t have much money left back in 1943, so the man told my father he could take whichever car he wanted for Pay.
Just another little story… That car must have weighed 3 tons, but it would cruse at 120 MPH.
Yeah, I was only 9, then, but I remember that car… there are stories about that car and this is just 1 of them.
One snowy Saturday night I went with him to get the Sunday papers and stuff from the bakery for Sunday morning. believe me, back then that was a treat.
Anyway, the car slid on the ice and snow and wound up with the front tires in 1 ditch and the back tires in the other ditch… [ I was told to go back to the house ] … we got the rest of the story when he got home… Father had to go up to one of the farms near by, the farmer had to come down with a Team of horses to pull the car out… People were different back than.
Thanks for your words, they mean so much to me… sunny
June 18, 2009 at 12:27 am
To all that have left messages here.
I must admit, I have mostly been reading the story and chatting with Sunny recently. I am now taking the time to read thru all the other messages over the two sites.
Theres a lot of good conversation here, it all makes me wonder how this subject became so taboo in the first place. If the rest of society could openly discuss such issues with the same intelect I think change may come sooner rather than later.
I would like to make a comment on the freedom of the press.
Recently, there was a story on the television about some people accused of veiwing child porngraphy on computers. This was being told as they went live to some poor guyes front door. There was a kind of riot squad there, a couple detectives and the TV crew.
They didn’t knock on his door they just hammered it open. They rushed in and pushed the guy down and handcuffed him. His wife and children were there and were hussled into a bedroom. All this was live. The detective then introduced himself, his face obscured and his name beeped over.
The warrant to search this house was given to the guy. The search I presume was carried out as the live part ended about there. They took his computer away.
The story gave the guys name and where he worked. What he was accused of etc and that he had been arrested and taken to be interviewed by police.
This guy hung himself befor the next evening and made the news for that as well.
There was never a follow up story to say wheather they ever found any evidence that could be used to confirm their suspicions.
I have to ask, when did we give up the right to be presumed inoccent until proved guilty. What I saw was trail by media. This fellows life ended when a TV crew crashed thru his door and told the world they thought he might be veiwing child porn. Did they care if it was true or not. Did they even ask him if it was. No, of course not.
His world fell apart so sudenly he couldn’t face his peers or his family. He chose death of dishonour. Maybe the very fact he was accused of this was so bad he couldn’t cope.
Perhaps this is the reason people don’t comment on these pages. I would hate for that to happen to me. I don’t ever veiw or even try to veiw illegal matterial on my computer. However, It seems to me the police can effectively ruin a life without ever getting to a court and they don’t need to prove what was veiwed was actually illegal to get a warrant to search. To this day the enquiry as to how a TV crew could go live befor the man was even questioned is still ongoing.
What was clear to me is that society is so against this single subject, child sexual activity, inocent peoples lives are ruined at just the suggestion of it. Change may come one day, but it won’t be in my life time.
I’m sorry if that is out of place Tristan, please just delete it if you wish.
Take care all
Lauklin
June 18, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Laulkin, the way I see it is there are films that aren’t about that at all, but would be viewed by people as taboo.
Then there is the real, dark stuff, just complete exploitation, that should be shut down.
Perhaps they are too often getting these confused? Or looking at the wrong thing.
Anyone have a take on this?
And of course, if you’d rather we’d not go that route Tristan please delete.
June 19, 2009 at 6:12 am
Lauklin
Well said, well written and to the point.
I started to comment, but than didn’t.
This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts, it’s crazy, the Cops [ I remember when I was a child, they were Police Officers, but now I they are Just Cops. ]
Laws don’t mean anything today, to them, they can do whatever they want.
Peace, Peace they will say, but there is no Peace.
I go to the door, it’s 2 Police Officers, Dale and Parker, I giggle because their alway funny and say funny things… 1948, in my house the coffee pot was always on, 24 hours a day… they stopped by for a cup of coffee and to say Hi.
Back than there was no place to get a cup of coffee after 5 PM. The only thing open was the News Paper store.
They knew my parents and would stop by for a cup of coffee and talk for a few minutes.
caring… sunny
PS. I walked past the Peterson’s house, Doris giggled at me from behind the untrimmed bushes and said, Hi sunny… I ran to Tim’s house to see if he could come out to play.
June 19, 2009 at 7:26 am
Lauklin,
Just shorts on and bear feet we run into the woods… Down the path to them two huge Pine trees where the path goes between them… There’s a hump of dirt there, I guess it covers the roots, we jump off of that and run down the path laughing and poking each other.
Down through the woods, jump over the downed tree, under the other one, around the next and down to the soybean field at the edge of the woods.
Not sure, but I think it was part of Beckman’s Farm.
Same soybean field, to the right were the cows and the creek and the old wooden bridge a fence and the cow path that became Maple AVE.
We didn’t go that way this morning, we were heading for No Mans Land.
I don’t know what Tim was thinking, but I always imagined that soybean field a HOT DRY Desert… The heat of the sun, the dry soybeans, the sound of the Locust, the heat waves shimmering over the field and hummm of the heat.
In the middle of that field was a spring… A 157 year old Oak tree had fallen over many years ago, we had counted the Rings where the farmer had cut the tree off, leaving only about 8 feet of tree and the roots sticking up… The spring had been under the tree and that’s what made it fall over. [ that's what Tim and Me figured out anyway. ] We would lay up there on the roots and look down a Miniature landscape of a river, water falls, the greenest softest grass we ever saw… That was the spring… there were other trees there and the long silky grass and two big rocks, where we put boards over and made a little cave to crawl into… It was amazingly COOL there, I’m sure it was because of the spring. Even as kids, all of us, because others came there too, but mostly, Tim and Me… Anyway, even as kids we never did anything to mess that spot up, No Mans Land was something to be cared for… We would look at the water falls and watch where the water went back under the ground… Than we would go around and pick up all the twigs and sticks and just clean up everything… We would Tip-Toe through the grass over to the spring and float a lief down and watch it go into the little cave the spring had made where it went back under the ground, or the Clay… The spring had brought all this Clay up and that’s what made all the little water falls and the stream and the little cave.
The whole place wasn’t much bigger than maybe 100 feet, or so around, but it was really a neat Place for us kids.
It was ours, just the kids that live right around there, we never told anybody about it and no one ever bothered it, no one ever dug into the clay, or tried to plug up the spring or anything… None of us ever stomped on the grass, or left any trash there.
Then we went to the creek and spent some time building a Dam to make the water deeper where we swim.
Then we went back in the woods to do some more work on the little Log cabin we were building… Just like a real one, notching out the logs and everything.
Tim’s grandfather gave us some wood shingles for the roof… Than summer was gone and school was open.
Never us a Ten year Nail on a 50 year roof shingle.
Hope this finds you well my friend… sunny
PS. somewhere around 1952, or 53, Land Developers moved into the area.
THEY LEFT NOTHING STANDING, NOTHING! Not one tree, not the pond, not Buckman’s farm and not No Mans Land.
I quit school at 16 and went to work full time.
Tim finished school and got married and had a little girl.
I knew farmers and their families… When my father died and I was the head of the house, I finished the 7 houses he left unfinished, built 8, or 10 more, then got out of the building business when I had to build a house on someone’s farm… I knew the farmer had been Taxed out by Developers.
Well that was a damn long PS… LOL
June 20, 2009 at 7:21 am
Hi Sunny
Great to hear from you again. We have some developers here too trying at the moment to take over some sand dunes.
Most of the locals use the dunes for various things, including myself. I have a 4 wheeler motor bike for my son. We go there quite often.
It will be a bad thing if the developers get them. We can simply drive further out but some of the other kids that use them can’t do that.
That idea of sitting down with a cup of coffee sounds awsome. I’d love to talk about a range of things with you. Including my next project. I’m looking to buy an old clipper bus. The ones that had the rounded down back that looked kind of artdeco race car.
Anyway, I hope your well Sunny. Please stay safe.
Lauklin
June 20, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Lauklin,
Great to hear from you also… That great to know you have a son.
I know what kind of bus your talking about, but what year is it?
Sand dunes, yeah, the Rich want them for themselves and will Damn shortly put a stop to anyone driving on them.
I don’t want to put my 2 cents in where it don’t belong, but if you by water they will build High Priced house, drive the Taxes sky high, and kind of people don’t even want anyone walking on WHAT THEY WILL CALL THEIR BEACH.
It’s like that on this Island, it’s all mine, mine, mine. We call them the [ beach fronters. ] The Billionaires are pushing the Millionaires out now.
I don’t live on this Island because I’m RICH, I live here because I work a one the restaurants. I clean the place and keep it fixed up… Gives me something to do and I make a little money… I live on a fixed income, so I need the little more.
Anyway, yeah I’m am well, G has given me a lot of good info and it’s helping me a lot.
Be back soon, we can talk about the bus… BTW can you say what ocean your near???
LOL… sunny
June 20, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Lauklin, BTW… I can travel and I have driven a long way some time to get a cup of coffee. LOL
All good things for you and yours… sunny
June 21, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Hi Sunny
You sound much better. It was really nice to hear from you again. I hope your well today.
Yes, I have a son. I had two boys and a girl actually. My wife left years ago with the daughter. I raised the boys on my own. The older one was tragically taken in a car wreck. His best friend died there as well. That was a few years back now. The youngest son still lives with me.
All that was when I tried to just fake it. I really just wanted to be a average Joe. These days I still go through the motions and take care of my responsibilities. I raised my boys to have open minds however, I have never told them about my past. Outwardly I’m just an all alpha male box set. (lol)
Thanks to these pages and this story I’m finding a little more of me everyday. I’m not gay or anything like that, I hate labels. Why should we identify with a certain group. Does that make it easier to be liked or hated by the so called normal folks. I accept people for who they are. I never question anything about anyone. No one should ever have a label to try to fit them into a one size fits all frame because we are all very complex and destinctly individual.
My only issue I suppose is what happened to me as a boy. I was very close to David, and I have never found anything that effected me so profoundly as he did. Absolutely nothing ever stacked up against what we had. Don’t get me wrong, I’m so glad life gave me my children and I love them as a father does. I raised them well. They won’t be single closed minded bigots. They were both on their way to becoming very handsome, well adjusted young men. The youngest brings me great joy but I just can’t tell him everything. Maybe one day ….
I said once that I only get my broken bit out late at night after I have been drinking, and thats still what happens. I still need to get thru another couple years. Once my youngest has finished school and goes out to meet the world, I’m getting a bus ( a converted clipper maybe)and heading off on my new life. I probably won’t change much on the outside, but I will deffinately be looking to meet people like me that want to live again.
Well dang, If I had a secret befor Tristan I havent got any now. High 5’s to you and Sunny for that.
It’s almost a relief to be so open about things. It also scares me to death.
I hope one day all people will just be able to be themselves wharts and all and society accepts it. No more shit about telling our children whats expected, grow up and meet a girl , get married , have kids etc…just let them live their lives as they see fit.
PS, It occured to me today that two boys who are attracted to each other would be perfectly normal. When you think about it, we all are attracted to others who have similar values to our own. We like others who get into the same things as ourselves. Why on earth would we condemn two boys for exploring each other to what ever level they choose.
The last thing I’ll say on this matter is this, SEX, it’s over rated and humans spend way to much time knocking themselves out over it. Live and let live, all things in moderation as long as no-one gets hurt. Sounds easy enough, as kids we do that. It’s just when we grow up we get all screwed in the head about stuff.
My god Locky, where did that all come from.
Take care my friend
Lauklin
June 22, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Sounds great Sunny. Hope your well.
I left two messages here that for what ever reason weren’t posted. I guess some things can’t be said.
Probly better to keep the mystery of it all.
I’m looking forward to more of your story with Tim. What a shame they built over that small place you had once with your friend. It seems nothing can stop our governments and their rich developer friends from doing as they please.
Take care my friend and be safe.
Lauklin
June 24, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Sunny ,
I hope your well man. I’m looking forward to that chat over a cup of coffee, but it could be quite some time befor that could happen. In the meantime I’ll just read more on these pages.
I see Tristan has changed the format of his writing style. The story line has hinted at some very interesting developments for the future.
I’m off to work again soon. I’ll look in here to see if your ok.
Take care
Lauklin
June 24, 2009 at 8:57 pm
My gosh. Another chapter. And yet there are so many chapters of peoples lives just in these discussions. Thanks for being so bold as to share them.
I shoud get to bed now lol. Staying up til 3, what a bad boy
June 25, 2009 at 11:43 am
Lauklin,
Thank you for your written words of June 21 2009.
Two boys attracted to each other.
Laws, people, cops and grown ups who would and can, [ willingly ] destroy their lives if they are found out.
Like the grave stone of a fallen soldier… They gave me a Medal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one.
Tim and Me. I loved him, but we were just kids and back in the 40s kids didn’t know stuff like they do today… I am real sure there was more to our friendship, but we only got into that a very little bit.
But I know that I loved him and have loved him all my life.
Even tho we haven’t seen each other for 60 years.
I know when I got my License to drive, I was off and running… Never found out if I was running away from something, or running to something, but as of yet I haven’t found either.
Then at 19 years, I had to raise a family… At that time, [ when my father died, ] my life as I knew it Ended… At 21, I picked up a drink, my so called father never told me anything about it, Alcohol, or anything about Alcoholism.
Altho, over the years, I’m pretty sure he was an Alcoholic, but without a program for living, he just didn’t drink… I know one thing for sure… We never had a conversation, I can not remember EVER having a conversation with him.
He told me I could quit school, but only if I got a Job… First I tried to work for him, but that didn’t work out… That didn’t workout for a lot of reasons.
And this is only one… We are on the job, it is very cold, winter, I wasn’t really doing anything, like he didn’t say go do this, or go do that, so told him I was cold and if he didn’t need me I would go home.
He said, I don’t need you… [ to this day, I really believe that's just what he meant... He didn't need me. ]
I was walking along the road, heading for home… He passed me on the road… He did not STOP to pick me up… He was sitting at the table in the kitchen when I got there… I was 16, I never spoke to him until he was close to death and he told me to go do something about one of the houses he was building.
He was dead when I was 19, almost 20.
Sorry, never really told that to anyone, but for some reason, I felt I could tell you… LOL
What about the Bus? I mean the Clipper.
BTW, if you do ever travel and your some place near Virginia USA. look me up.
I will most likely still have the same Email… If I ever change it I will let you know.
Well there I go again, running off at the mouth.
Hope you are well… Don’t know if I ever mentioned it, but I look for sunny every day, the kid I was, the person I was, kinda like you are doing… If I read that right.
LOL… sunny
June 26, 2009 at 10:28 am
Hello Sunny
Great to hear from you again. Hope your well.
Thanks for sharing your story. Yes, you read right. It’s amazing how saying something out loud ( so to speak) can put things into perspective. My Father never had a decent conversation with me either. He kind of acknowleged me from time to time, and taught me stuff, but it was always very quiet. He wasn’t a man of many words at the best of times.
Please never think your saying to much , I am a good listener. I love to hear other peoples stories, It kinda makes me feel safe. Gives me a sense of belonging. (if that makes sense lol).
It’s a shame your father never came to realise how much you had to offer. Maybe if he took the time to have that conversation he might of gotten to know you better. I always found fishing to be just the thing for getting to know your boys. No stress, just worms , fish and chin wagging.
The clipper may be a little more difficult than I antisipated. Their very rare now. I may have to alter the plan and just get an RV mobile home or some such. I have a couple years to work it out. Hell, a pick up truck with a box on the back would do. lol. Those clippers sure look nice all revamped though.
I will definately keep you in mind when I get on the road. Perhaps we could get that coffee on Sunset bouleveard and watch the world go by.
Take care Sunny.
PS…. Jed, how are you. I’d love to hear an update of whats happening with you. Only insomniacs and shift workers are awake at 3am. Oh wait, better add teenagers to that as well, lol
Take care all
Lauklin
June 27, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Lauklin,
You sound well, I am well too, I guess we’re both doing well, then. LOL
The pic-up sounds like a better deal, at least you can take the box off and put the truck and yourself to work for a week, to make enough money to buy another tank of GAS… LOL
I like that LOL, it’s easier [ i just forgot how to spell easier, ] anyway, it’s a lot easier then writing, [ that was suppose to be funny, ] Or I could just type, TWSTBF… Na, LOL is defiantly easier.
Anyway, I will be looking for that day and the cup of coffee… I’m pretty sure I said this before, with my luck I’ll probably live to be a 100. LOL
My next little story will be about my walk up the West Coast from CA. and into Canada. Which will include the part from Delaware, by way of Canada out to the West Coast, but I didn’t walk that part, I drove.
Hope this finds you and yours very well… a friend sunny
June 28, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Hi Sunny
Great to see your so well again.
I won’t be working during my road trip. I’m looking to maybe fund a book or somthing like that. Then sit back on the profit margin and “sun it up” lol. Just kidding man.
The good thing about being a workaholic and living a sparce lifestyle is the bank balance is always very healthy. My trip will be one of new discovery for me. I’m very interested in photography, so I’ll be looking to compile a pictorial of people and places.
Walking to Canada huh, might have to call you Forest (Sunny) Gump. lol
Take care my friend
Lauklin
July 3, 2009 at 6:30 am
Hello everyone.
Theres a buzz around these pages. It seems there’s history a foot.
I was wondering if we might compile a list. A kind of guide to make this history happen, just in case it all gets a little willy nilly.
To make a change in the law is difficult, to make a change in the world……mmmmmmm
Perhaps we can start with the law. It’s not impossible as long as you put the right people in the right places. Then all you need to do is convince them to put their reputation on the line to make the change. It comes down to bartering.
Maybe something like this,
Firstly, identify seats in government that can be changed, marginal seats.
Then get a whole bunch of people who want these changes to go live in those areas. Become voters in numbers.
Once you get a few into government, they need to have an opportunity to cast deciding votes in other things, like wars and laws and what ever.
To get their votes the rest of the government needs to give a little on something else. That right there is how change comes.
Love to hear others veiws on this. Mine is just a rambling, but maybe others have a more defined approach.
Lauklin
July 25, 2009 at 9:59 am
The thing about child abuse is you don’t know it’s abuse….until an adult tells you.
July 31, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Lauklin,
I’m with you on that one/ This is really a messed up world now/
I just found the off topic page/ Not sure how long I will be on, before the internet connection goes off again, so I will wait till tomorrow/
caring… sunny
August 3, 2009 at 2:14 am
Hi Sunny
I left you a message at the comment page under 108, but I don’t know if it will make it either. I think there may be a problem with the site.
Hope to chat again soon my friend, take care.
Locky
August 6, 2009 at 8:50 pm
This look like a quiet corner to anounce a small but significant chapter in my otherwise dull life. Today I gave up drinking.
Peace and happiness to you all.
Lauklin
August 8, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Lauklin,
Congrats! I’ve had my battles with drink and drugs before as have many of us. I’ve got 9 years sober now and I’m happy to be without the troubles an addiction brings. One day at a time, dont do it (stay clean) for anyone but yourself. Do it because you love yourself. Stay busy, volunteer, help others, turn it around. Close your eyes, free your mind and float downstream.
Cheers Tristan
August 11, 2009 at 12:42 am
Thanks Tristan
I hope to do all those things, mainly I just want the control back. I want to live again. I have a great deal to thank you for, this story and these pages have really affected me. I was lost in a world that I thought only I could understand. Communicating with all you guyes has changed all that.
Take care all,
Lauklin
August 24, 2009 at 7:19 am
Lauklin,
Sitting in the coffee shop in Farmville again. Lots on my mind. Just read 112.
This town is about 25 minutes from the house. It’s cool, I can get a coffee and muffin and just chill out for a while.
My brother isn’t at the house anymore. He’s up north with his lady friend.
Not sure what I want to do with the property and house. I just look at it, like I got a place to live. But I’m also thinking about putting it back on the market.
I need to go put some money in the meter before it runs out.
The loneliness is becoming more then I can stand. No matter where I go, there I am.
Thinking of you… sunny
August 25, 2009 at 8:24 am
Hi Sunny
Welcome back, I can relate to your words about here I am. lol, what a pity we can’t run fast enough to escape ourselfs.
I wish I could fix your loneliness, but I can’t. I wish I could a lot of things that I can’t. I only hope you can close your eyes and drift like I do, into a world that accepts things the way they are.
I’m not sure whats happening with your houses and things, I hope that just sorts it self out. Maybe some kids would like a roof over their heads.
Take care Sunny, truelly, take care
Lauklin
August 29, 2009 at 5:50 am
Lauklin,
great to hear from you and thank you for your words.
very good point, about the kids, but I wonder if I’m to old.
I must look into this. I will look into this. get my mind off of things.
I’m at the coffee shop again, and just read chapter 113
All my love to you and yours.
caring… sunny
September 3, 2009 at 2:47 am
Hello Sunny
I often look for comments from you, I have come to consider you more than just a pen friend. It’s a bit weird , but It’s like I have known you forever.
I thought about helping boys in need. I have a military background and thought maybe a camp setting with structured dicipline might be just the thing. I would want to add respect and love to that regime.
As a boy I looked for attention and love like most kids do. I didn’t like being fussed over, and luckily I never was. The attention I’m talking about is acknowlegment. Positive feedback.
I often think these things but never do them. I guess I’m not game enough.
The RB story is going along well, I noticed a suggestion of a new character, looking forward to that.
Find a place in the sun man and have a coffee, Stay well.
Lauklin
September 8, 2009 at 7:12 am
Lauklin,
Just read chapters 115&116 God, but I do love Ts. writing and his story.
Thank you for your words, they mean a lot to me. They mean more then I can say.
Positive feedback, I can not remember ever getting that. Not when I was a kid and not in my life as I grew up, why can’t people tell the truth some times?
And now that I am getting Positive feedback here, from you and the others, I am not sure how to handle it, but I know that I can talk to you and the others and you will understand.
I am about to tell you things that I can not tell anyone else, because I don’t have anyone else. I tell you because I’m real sure you will not think I’m just dumping on you. You will know that I’m just talking.
I’m in Farmville again, at the coffee shop, no Web at the house.
My brother is screwing up, seams he is and has been using my Name & SS # for a long time.
I am going to have to talk to him, but that’s not going to be easy for me, or him.
He is my younger brother, I love him, but I know he has gone to far this time.
The best I can figure out right now is that this has been going on for YEARS.
I don’t even want to think about how he has screwed up my credit line.
Looking for a cigar the other day, I stumbled across my name on some Bank Ac.
I have to wonder it there are others, or credit cards& there just may be.
I need to go for now, things to do.
I will be back in FL. next month and will be back on-line.
All my love and caring to you my friend. Hope this has found you well.
caring… sunny
September 16, 2009 at 8:04 pm
Oh no Sunny, I hope your brother hasent made to much a mess of things for you. this ones a real doozy.
It hurts me to think someone who should be so close can do this.
I hope things work out my friend, if you need a shoulder to lean on just give a yell.
Take care and be well.
Lauklin
September 19, 2009 at 2:44 am
Lauklin, Hope this finds you well.
It wasn’t as bad as I thought and we got everything worked out. Hopefully.
But it’s nice to know there’s a shoulder out there.
I will be heading back to VA today, then back down to FL. in a few more days.
A lot of driving for me.
caring… sunny
September 20, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Hello again Sunny,
I’m so glad things worked out. As for a port in a storm, anytime brother.
RB is flowing along nicely, I’m finding the story line an emotional mine field just now. Thats not a bad thing though, it’s great to feel such strong emotions again.
I suppose the reason may be the conflicting sence of right and wrong, of need versus want. Part of me says yes, do these things because you want to James, and then I feel kind of ashamed of myself for thinking he would enjoy such an encounter. This isn’t the first time I have found myself in this particular frame of mind.
As I have often said I prefer the world I escape to in my mind much better than the one I live in with my body.
I’m rambling again arent I, LOL
Take care my friend, stay well and take a break from driving. Maybe lay in the sun in a grassy field.
Lauklin
September 25, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Yeah, it’s kinda hard for me too, but when your on the streets and hungry you some how find the strength to do things you never dreamed you would do.
But at least James is drawing the line in some cases.
I would most likely get lock up Lauklin, if I laid out in a field, everything belongs to somebody and they want to keep it for themselves. Privet property keep off, or out.
It seams that way in Eastern USA. anyway. It’s all driveway house, driveway house, sign after sign, No trespassing, privet property keep out, Beware of dog.
It’s all mine, mine, mine. They don’t seam to know that this place don’t belong to us, we’re just passing through.
Anyway, I’m back in FL. and I’ve got to get back to work on the model of Miss Moons house.
Hope this finds you and yours well, caring… sunny
September 26, 2009 at 8:32 am
Hiya Sunny, Locky, Tristan, and many others.
The “Rent Boy” story has forced me to look deeply into my life, and “RB” seems to have had a similiar effect on each of you, as well as many other readers. In some ways, “RB” has affected me like psycho-therapy.
Perhaps the self-examination aspect of “Rent Boy” has thrown some readers into deep confusion so that although they zealously follow the story, they cannot put their feelings into words, and therefore, make no comments.
Sunny: if you want to lie on the ground, find some nice state and federal parks near you. Just be careful to check the ground for litter and garbage, before you lie down.
Locky, Sunny and Tristan: perhaps next spring or summer, we could rally some of the RB readers at a campground either near or inside a state or federal park?
Although I am still uncertain exactly why I would like to meet other “Rent Boy” readers, possibly, I subconsciously hope it will complete this course of psycho-therapy. Or, possibly, as a former journalist, I just like to examine every new thing from 6 or 7 different angles.
Does anyone have any thoughts or comments about a gathering of “lost boys?”
September 26, 2009 at 11:48 pm
No problem here 60sChild. The idea has already been advanced to possibly meet on Sunset Ave in 2-3 years. I can be flexible about both plans or either. Will take lots of coordination between us tho.
Just had this idea, for those in other nations or with unbreakable commitments otherwise, perhaps, if they have a webcam, they could appear via teleconference. It could be like The Brady Bunch, with nine little video squares on one screen-lol. Of course that would only work if the park had internet available.
Till next time, G
September 29, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Hey Guyes
I hope everyones well. I just wanted to say that although a meeting would be kinda fun, It maybe would attract to much attention for me. I prefer this place, these pages and this story to be right where they are. An escape.
For those who are brave enough and get to meet up, I congratulate you all. I hope it’s an awsome day. Maybe one day I will have the intestinal fortitude to take the next step.
Take care all,
Lauklin
September 29, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Sunny,
you forgot the signs that say the beach is closed after sundown.
In eastern Va. you can not find a beach to watch the sun go down, but if you try park in the middle of the cars in the lot. The police start at one end when writing the tickets so, it gives you time to leave before you get a ticket. What a shame of what people have become. Where one lives near the water and can not enjoy it after hours ( like mother nature is closed after sundown). If everyone gets together let me know I will try to be there. I still can’t seam to get my mind and fingers to work right good night all.
Thank you, Poe
September 29, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Hey Sunny and Lauklin,
I read your conversations and found my own life. I use to go to Hatteris to camp and fish all summer long , until the money moved in and changed everything. (sorry for my writtting and spelling I am going through Med changes again). In Va. beach if the city re-plenishes the sand you have to open your area of beach to us public. The thing is all the parking in this one area is privet parking. This one guy went and got a ticket, but when he went to court the Judge through it out because the city had to make parking for us lowly people who payed for the sand. I loved it. I had always wanted to convert a bus over to a camper. Well maybe one day. I have two sons and an X. The boys are grown and gone and I exist. I am trying to get myself together to were some day I hope to live before I die. The other thing I don’t talk about much but, is still there. I hope it was ok to talk to you both, I did not want to just barge in but, was sitting here and reading and relized have much we have in common and needed to talk to someone? If it is not ok I will understand and will end this with a thank you both for listening? Maybe this will help me to deal with some of the past and present. I am running on and on so good night and thank you, Poe
September 30, 2009 at 12:18 am
Hello Poe
Your more than welcome to share your story. I can’t speak for Sunny but I feel I know him enough to encourage you to continue writting in here.
I sure know what you mean by waiting to live again, I am doing just that. I hope I have enough left in the tank at the end of this part of my life to really get out there and find my self. Lord knows I been patient, lol
You feel free to write my friend, I would be very keen to get to know you more.
Take care
Lauklin
September 30, 2009 at 3:11 am
Lauklin, hope this finds you well.
I’m back in Florida now, so I can get right back to you. I don’t need to drive to another town to get on the net.
I fully understand what you wrote, I really do.
Really! Are you Ok?
caring… sunny
September 30, 2009 at 3:33 am
Poe, I hope you are well also.
Like I just told Lauklin, I’m back in Florida, so I can talk right back to you.
Talk to me, we can say things here, but remember to keep it cool!
The Bad people can read this too.
You are right about the beach being closed on this Island at sun down.
There were some people on the beach one night, [ people that live on the Island ] they were waiting for a meteorite shower, but they were told by the police that they had to leave, or face Arrest.
It is beyond crazy now, we can’t do anything, or be anywhere.
There’s what they call a Park off Island down here, there is also a post with 10, or 12 signs on it telling you what You Can Not Do.
First sign, No Parking. It’s just a field, no tables, no fires, no pets and so-on and so-on. I read down the list of signs expecting to see a sign that said, No Children, but I guess they missed that one.
Anyway, we can talk here, it’s Ok.
caring… sunny
September 30, 2009 at 3:41 am
Poe, I just re-read your comments, join the club, I wear out Dictionary’s.
caring… sunny
September 30, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Hey Sunny,
Welcome back man, I hope ya get the chance to slow down a lil now.
I’m very well right now, thanks for asking and I hope you are as well.
I’m looking forward to seeing your next model, I have a picture in my head of miss moons place, lol. I knew a woman who could just as well be her when I was a boy. Her house was back behind an overgrown garden long ago lost to structure. She was sadly widowed during the Korean war. Her house is still very vivid in my mind, we all thought it was haunted. I was a very active boy always chasing an odd job for a few bucks and she was on my paper delivery route. One day she asked me to paint her garden studio. It turned out she was a horticulurist. (is that how you spell that lol). Amazing woman. Thers a lot more to this story but surfice to say her house was a weather bourd timber structure. In it’s day it would have been probably the nicest house on the street, but it had fallen into disrepair due to her husband being lost.
I’ll sign off for now, thanks for taking me down another memory lane.
Take care all
Lauklin
October 2, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Hi gang
I left a post here that dosent seem to have made the cut again for some reason. I don’t know why.
Sunny, The black thing with a red man is a blog stat counter. depending on the level it is set too it can go so far as to give locations and IP’s.
Tristan, While I have enjoyed your story and all that it has opened up for me, I’m afraid it’s all getting a lil to close to reality.
To all those I have spoken to on these pages, I bid you all faorwell, I hope you find happiness and peace.
Take care all
Lauklin
October 2, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Hey Lauklin,
What do you mean that you bid us “farewell”? Are you leaving us?? If so, why?
Would hate to see you leave, for any reason. You’re a part of these sites now.
G
October 3, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Lauklin, you can’t just go like that.
Please talk to me.
Isn’t there some way we can talk or write to each other?
Damn it man I will miss you.
There’s got to be some way we can at least write to one another.
Other then here/ I mean.
I can’t write what I am feeling right now, Not Here, I would never do that to T. or any of us here, but I can’t just lose a friend like this.
I can read between the line, just like you can when I comment.
I do care… sunny, I really do.
October 3, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Sorry guyes, I didn’t mean to be so sharp. I’m just very concerned about my privacy at the moment.
Where I live this subject is completely misunderstood and as such persecusion rather than procecution is the result of even the most inocent interest.
The recent addition of a stat counter has unnerved me. I know it is just a simple thing that shows only where folks ISP’s are, howerver part of my “broken bit” is an acute sence of paranoia.
I’m really sorry Tristan, I know I’m probably being completely rediculous. Your story and these pages have given me the most freedom I have ever been able to have in this area of my life. These guyes here have become closer then anyone could imagine. I don’t want to lose any of you.
Sunny, I won’t leave just like that, I promise. I’ll just take it easy for a little while now and get my head around this. As you know my good friend we live in a fragile state most of the time. I dosent take much to shatter any confidence we build.
Take care all, I’ll be back soon.
Lauklin
October 3, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Hey Lauklin,
I don’t remember if you said if you said where you live or not, but you might want to check out http://WWW.Anonymizer.com . They may or may not provide their services outside the U.S. but even if they don’t there may be alternatives where you live (if not in U.S.). I tried to find info on their site about where they are available but couldn’t. You could email them tho, if you’re not in the U.S. and ask.
Anonymizer.com has a very good paid “proxy service” (called “Anonymous Surfing”) for $30 a year. And also their top end Total Net Shield service for $100 a year. The TNS service is far and away the best one (of their two web surfing services), as it is a “virtual private network” (VPN) of a similar type to what businesses use. Their VPN includes software that encrypts everything from your computer to everywhere on the web and back again, using robust 256bit encryption. To your ISP everything is a meaningless jumble, and your location is shown as various places in the world, but never where (or who) you are. Your true IP is never shown to anyone anywhere.
Beware of the “free proxies” on the web, they often are not as good as they sound.
There are a few free (and reliable) services tho. None (to my knowledge) are as good overall as Anonymizer, but some have features that Anonymizer doesn’t. One that has been around for a long time is Tor. It is open source and free and very good from everything I’ve read. I don’t know how simple it is to set up, but I believe it is available around the world, and is definitely free. http://www.torproject.org
I hope you find some use for this info Lauklin, and continue to stay with us. I think that all (or most) sites track IP’s, tho not all make this as blatant as the stat counter does. I found it interesting to look at the map myself. I found myself wondering which of the little blinking dots were my friends that post here, and who were the anonymous thousands who don’t feel safe to post. They are all shown, whether they post or not, which might scare them all to death if they knew. But that just shows the value of anonymizing and vpn (also called “secure tunneling”) services.
Till next time, G
October 4, 2009 at 12:31 pm
I understand, the bad people. Until later, I’ll keep you in my mind.
Thanks for that info, G.
caring… sunny
October 4, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Thanks G,
I’m often left in awe at your boundless knowlege. I will definately be looking up that site. I knew that IP’s are tracked, it only gets to me when I see it. lol
I had a ruff weekend with all sorts of things not being in their little box’s, Sunny will no doubt understand what I mean by that. The sun was out again today and all seems well again.
Thanks for your understanding and the information. I would hate to lose my new family.
Take care
Lauklin
October 4, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Hey Lauklin and Sunny,
Yeah I hope you are able to get some good and some peace of mind from one or the other of those two sites. Anonymizer is definitely worth the money, I’ve used the Total Net Shield product for years. And Tor gets good reviews too, and are in the process of coming out with some new, even better, version of themselves–I dunno if the new version is available yet or not. There are free plugins for Firefox that have something to do with Tor. I dunno exactly how they relate, tho I think they may have something to do with integrating it better with Firefox and maybe making it easier to use or something. Tho I really don’t know since I’ve never used them, only seen them in passing. Tor will work with either Internet Explorer or Firefox as I understand it tho.
Anonymizer’s U.S. phone number is 888-270-0141. They will be happy to talk you through setting it up, tho they may urge you to try it on your own. They will talk you through it if you ask tho. They accept payment via Credit card or Money Order (etc).
Hey Lauklin–you better be careful how much you compliment me on my supposedly “boundless knowledge”, or you’ll give too much encouragement to my boundless ego. I was about to say that it might give me a swollen head–but that could be taken a couple of different ways here–so I changed it–haha.
Till next time, G
October 4, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Ha HA, swollen head, rastas
October 5, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Hello Sunny,
I was just reading between the lines a little. Are you ok man, I got somewhat distracted just now and nearly missed your comments after the last chapter. If you need to chat about that I sure as hell am here my friend.
You seem like a good man Sunny, the depth of your compassion and caring is inspiring.
I hope your well Sunny, I really hope you are.
Take care
Lauklin
October 7, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Yeah L. I’m Ok, I just thought you were going to disappear.
It’s 7:42 PM on a Wednesday and I just read chapter 123. Then I jumped over here to see if you were around. I’ve been sitting here for a half hour looking at this LapTop and wondering what to talk about.
It’s not that I don’t have anything to say, it’s just that I’m not coming up with the right words right now. Well that’s not true, I have the words, I just can’t put them in order. I’ll have to spread them out on the floor and shuffle them around a little. Now I wonder where I read that?
Don’t you just love it when some one says, “just hang in there and everything will work out.”
I will be back L. caring… sunny
October 8, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Hello Sunny
I look at the jumble of words and I don’t have to assemble them, words like caring, honest, sincere, friend and thoughtful amongst others have no need for order.
Take care all
Lauklin
October 11, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Hello L. hope this finds you well.
Thank you for your words. Yes, I think we understand each other very well.
I do wish that I could find someone on this Island to talk to, but so far I haven’t had much luck. They all have closed minds and they refuse to hear the truth.
They are blind to the fact that we have lost our freedoms, or they just don’t want to see it.
But I can talk to you and the others through the comments and for me that is very good.
This story is so moving in so many ways and now it look’s like we may be getting an Artist. That would be so great for the book.
Did you see, [ on milkboy ] someone turned in a family for taking pictures of their own children in the bathtub. What a sick world and sick people.
Just wanted to say Hi. Keep well and safe my friend. Just a word now and than is enough for me, just so I know your Ok.
caring… sunny
October 13, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Hello Sunny,
I was very very happy to find your last reply. It’s always a pleasure to read your thoughts.
I’m really looking forward to possibly seeing some pictures of RB. Of course I, like everyone else I suppose, have an image of the whole story already in my head. Tristan does an amazing job of painting pictures with his words. However, to see an artists impression will be really cool.
I was surfing thru some pictures the other day and found two images. Two boys, one blonde with a kind of grin that only comes from those wonderfully impulsive boys. You know the ones that always seem to be in some kind of trouble. The other was a well built boy with darker browner hair. He had that look of a boy that just knows stuff. Like how things work. They were actually posted on one site next to each other. They instantly had me thinking of Squeegy and Zac. It was right then I knew we need pictures with the RB story. lol
I think I may have read that story about those poor people who were charged for taking pictures of their kids in the tub. I have a lot of thoughts on that issue, however, I might keep them to myself. Perhaps the autorities would like us to destroy all images and referances to naked kids. I’m not sure what would be left of our culture if such a nonsence were ever implimented. For instance…..
mama’s hangin’ hand me downs
daddy’s in the hotel bar
kids reciting mother goose
running naked through the yard
Shawn Mullins, September in Seatle.
Would even an innocent song become illegal ? Makes me worry about the next generations freedom. It also makes me ask, what do our leaders mean when they say our soldiers are fighting for our freedom. Is it the same freedom they take from us a little each day orrrrrrrrrr is it the freedom they have to take it. Goodness, I’m rambling again, lol
Ok , I’m outa here. Thanks Sunny and stay cool man.
Take care all
Lauklin
October 16, 2009 at 12:11 pm
L. Hope this finds you and yours well.
I was reading your words. Yes, I fear for the children that are going to have to live in this world and what it has become.
I have a few thousand words myself, but I have a hard time figuring out where to start. I can talk the words, but when I try to put them down here, I get lost in my thoughts trying to keep it short.
This man, Brian Bex started the Remnant Trust. A collection of the Great Books.
Has something to do with the Great Conversation and the Disappearance of Liberal Education.
Things he’s talking about, like Liberal Arts, it was the education of the Founding Fathers. Now it is almost gone.
[ Great men, Great writers from around the world. ]
This is just one thing I think about and talk about a lot.
But this man says it better. Brian Bex writes; and this is just part of this book I found. He writes, In the United States, at least, the prevailing opinion seems to be that the demands of that ideal are met by universal schooling, rather than by universal liberal education. What goes on in school is regarded as of relatively minor importance. The object appears to be to keep the child off the labor market and to detain him in comparatively sanitary surroundings until we are ready to have him go to work.
Education is supposed to have something to do with intelligence.
I have personally talked to school kids that told me if they or some one else figures out an easier way to do a math problem, the teacher tell them they can’t do that!
An Art teacher says, “I want you to use your imagination, OR today you can do whatever you want.” Than the teacher turns right around and tells the kid, “No, you can’t draw that!”
The New World Order. They are raising these kids to be workers.
On the other hand, believing in the Bible as I do, everything is just the way it’s suppose to be at this time in history.
I better not go any further with this.
And Tristan, if this is a bit to much, Please do not post it.
caring… sunny
October 16, 2009 at 11:51 pm
Hi Sunny, I hope your well
I’d like to know where you were going with that. One of the most perplexing questions I have in my head is why do we have religion.
It has always seemed to me the easiest way to control the worlds people is to give them something to be scared of. A consequence for misbehaving. An eternally burning sole seems to cover that very nicely.
I wouldn’t presume to expect folks to question their beliefs, I just like the idea of being able to speak my mind without presecusion. I have lived my whole entire life under this threat of eternal condemnation for committing mortal sin, but as long as I go on my knees every sunday and beg forgivness all will be ok.
Sorry, that just seems a little to easy. I often find myself being just a rung above all that. I can be good without those threats. I wonder if God ever thought mear men would presume to rule in his name, and use his words to achieve there goals.
mmmmmm
Lauklin
PS, again Tristan, if thats to heavy just hit the delete button. Cheers
October 25, 2009 at 4:40 pm
L.
I agree, I guess it makes things just that much more confusing.
First thing I should not bring religion into things I talk about.
Second thing is, I should have put a Stop right under, Education is supposed to have something to do with intelligence. Before I started to write my own thoughts.
I’m Ok, and I will be back.